Help - mama needs some support!

[KristyB]

I know that this isn't really off topic, but I haven't posted enough to get on the other forums.

My first is 3 mos old now and it seems that his sleep has been getting shorter and shorter during the nights. I don't think its a growth spurt because he really doesn't eat much when I try to nurse him. He first sleeps three hours and then wakes up every two from then on. He use to sleep 5-6 hours starting at 4 weeks! Then 4 for a while but he woke up after another four after his first feeding. I am getting up more than ever with him.
He seems to be nursing well during the day...

I was given the book Baby Wise before he was born and refused to read it because of it's anti AP views but after hearing another random mom mention it this week, I decided to read it. I figured I could glean the useful bits of info out of it.

It made me feel awful. It said something about how co-slept babies will wake up a lot and it will last until I wean (that won't be any time soon). It made me wonder if I would ever get any sleep. I also nurse him to sleep a lot which is a big Baby Wise no no. Theres no way I could ever let him cry it out!

Anyhow it made me question everything that I have been doing and this sleepy mama has been really upset ever since.

I guess I'm just looking for a little support right now... How do y'all get your little ones to sleep? Any suggestions for getting a little more sleep at night?

[lisawheeler]

Oh, boy, I could have written your post 9 months ago! Well, I have good news and bad news:

1) Bad news: Yep, a lot of breastfed/co-sleeping babies do not sleep through the night until they are weaned. Most, I would imagine. What your baby is doing is VERY normal. Babies sleep very deeply between 2-4 months (this is highest time of risk for SIDS) and then will wake more frequently. What your baby is doing is what the vast majority of breastfed babies will do without some kind of sleep training.

2) Good news: Even w/ a baby who wakes to eat, you CAN get good sleep. I take it you are co-sleeping right now? What does that look like? When I started having these problems with my son, he was sleeping in a crib beside my bed. I didn't think it would be any big deal to pull him into bed and nurse him once or twice a night-- but every two hours, NOPE. Having to make sure he was fully asleep before putting him back, having to keep awake myself, I'd be fatigued the next day. So we made the move to the family bed. It meant losing my beloved down comforter, putting a guard rail on my side of the bed (DH is too heavy a sleeper to be next to the babe), and getting a mat to put on the floor for my son's naptimes.

I haven't looked back. It is easy and natural to nurse a baby to sleep (your milk contains hormones just for that purpose). With Thomas right next to me at night, I don't fully awaken to feed him. HE doesn't fully wake up to eat. We both "sleep through the night" even though I'm vaguely aware that some nursing has gone on.

In all honesty, I did try some sleep training before we changed to the family bed. Some babies sleep train easily, but my son did not. He would cry for literally HOURS and still not sleep. It was an awful experience. If I knew what I know now about how normal his sleep habits actually were for a baby of his age, I wouldn't have tried so hard to change them.

Anyway, this is probably THE MOST HELPFUL thing I've ever read on this topic:

http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detsleepthrough.html

Of course, if you already are doing the family bed, and having these problems, I'd chalk it up to teething. The only time we ever have fitful nights are when Thomas has a tooth breaking through.

[Christi]

Oh, please, throw away that book. Follow your instincts, part of being a mom is less sleep, I'm sorry to say it. But it only lasts for a short time and nurturing your baby is so much more important.

That book is awful and IMO it's child abuse to leave your baby to cry. It destroys trust.

He's so young and will go through many phases of sleeping and not. One thing to remember is that no matter what you do there are things that always affect sleep for babies - teething, milestone, growth spurt. So it's very back and forth and you just have to accept it and go with the flow.

:hug:

[granolamommy]

First, :bighug: :bighug: ! I'm SO glad you are asking for advice! Like the previous posters said, this is VERY normal, not just for breastfed babies, but for all babies. Sleep cycles frequently change throughout a child's life. And at this age it very well could be teething, or some other developmental changes.

Second, THOW THAT BOOK AWAY! It is AWFUL! And should be titled, "The Quickest Way To END Your Nursing Relationship" :af: I know some people have had success with it, but that is not the case with most nursing mamas I've talked to who followed it's guide. I loath that book so much that I've been known to buy them from thrift stores or other mamas just so I can rip them up and thorw them out to keep them from getting into another unsusspecting, well intentioned mama's hands!

Third, continue following your heart and your baby's lead. The fact that reading it made you uncomfortable, and that it made you question the way you are doing things with your baby, tells me that this is not the book for you. You are the expert on your baby, trust yourself and your instincts.

I would suggest Nighttime Parenting : How To Get Your Baby and Child To Sleep by Dr. William Sears. Your library may have it or one of the mama's here my have a copy you could borrow or buy. Or check out Dr. Sears' website at http://www.askdrsears.com/ at look at the articles on sleep.

Oh, and I have nursed all three of my babes to sleep before laying them down. And I have often told my husband, "Ya know, we may parent and nurture our children differently than "most people", and it may be a little more difficult than "their" way. But I sure am glad we chose to do it OUR way instead!!" And he always tells me he's glad too. Because, yes, AP parenting is not the "easy way", but for us, it's the BEST WAY!

Good luck, and sweet dreams!

[Hayes]

SWADDLE! Honestly, it makes a huge difference at our house. Last night, I got isaac swaddled nice and tight. He slept, please don't hurt me, 15 hours. The night before though, I did a quick and dirty swaddling job and he woke up after just 4 hours.

[anneboyd]

I know that this isn't really off topic, but I haven't posted enough to get on the other forums.

My first is 3 mos old now and it seems that his sleep has been getting shorter and shorter during the nights. I don't think its a growth spurt because he really doesn't eat much when I try to nurse him. He first sleeps three hours and then wakes up every two from then on. He use to sleep 5-6 hours starting at 4 weeks! Then 4 for a while but he woke up after another four after his first feeding. I am getting up more than ever with him.
He seems to be nursing well during the day... Any suggestions for getting a little more sleep at night?

Bless your heart, Kristy. These little ones are often one step forward two steps back. I'm mothering #5 right now, Caroline is 3.5 mos. old. She began sleeping all night with no help from me at 4-5 weeks. :tomato:

Lately though she's been waking 2-3x at night. ALL of mine did that about this time. They begin practicing their skills, like rolling over, in their sleep and waking themselves up.

Today in the PUBLIX Baby Club newspaper there was an article about how important mothering is, how those synapses and hormones and feelings now responsible for good physical and emotional health later are being formed NOW, in the first year and they may be hard to undo if screwed up. This was the Publix newsletter, not Dr. Sears!

More later, gotta run!!

[Marymoomoo]

My first is 3 mos old now and it seems that his sleep has been getting shorter and shorter during the nights. I don't think its a growth spurt because he really doesn't eat much when I try to nurse him. He first sleeps three hours and then wakes up every two from then on. He use to sleep 5-6 hours starting at 4 weeks! Then 4 for a while but he woke up after another four after his first feeding. I am getting up more than ever with him. He seems to be nursing well during the day...

Normal. Absolutely NORMAL. :) This link might explain the increased waking:
www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/4mo-sleep.html


I was given the book Baby Wise before he was born and refused to read it because of it's anti AP views but after hearing another random mom mention it this week, I decided to read it. I figured I could glean the useful bits of info out of it. It made me feel awful.

My best suggestion? Pick up the book, briskly walk to your nearest trash can, toss book.

I'm sure some mothers have gleaned some good tips from it, but IMHO, it's a take what works for you and leave the rest resource. And ANY resource that makes you feel awful isn't worth having around (I have heard so many mothers say the same thing about Babywise, so you're not alone!).



It said something about how co-slept babies will wake up a lot and it will last until I wean (that won't be any time soon). It made me wonder if I would ever get any sleep. I also nurse him to sleep a lot which is a big Baby Wise no no. Theres no way I could ever let him cry it out!

Not true, and not true. :) Many co-sleeping babies DO wake at night, but guess what? Studies have shown that MOST babies wake at night (co-sleeping or not, formula fed or breastfed). Co-sleeping doesn't make a wakeful baby. Breastfeeding doesn't make a wakeful baby, either. :) Rest easy.

Here are some resources that you might find helpful:
http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBJanFeb03p4.html
http://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/sleep.html
http://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/sleepstudies.html
http://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/comfortnursing.html
http://www.lalecheleague.org/FAQ/sleep.html



Anyhow it made me question everything that I have been doing and this sleepy mama has been really upset ever since.I guess I'm just looking for a little support right now... How do y'all get your little ones to sleep? Any suggestions for getting a little more sleep at night?

Most experts (AP, anyway) agree that three months is a little young to start pushing baby to sleep longer stretches. Instead, perhaps look for ways to maximize YOUR sleep. :)
*Nap when baby naps
*Consider full or partial co-sleeping
*When baby is tanked up for a while, have dh hold him while you go take a refreshing nap
*Remember that this, too, shall pass AND your baby is only little for a little while. In a couple of months, things will be completely different!

http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp
http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/cosleeping.asp
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T070200.asp

[Aliebama]

:drop: :drop: :Bolt: Off to swaddle my Anders and start giving that a try!


SWADDLE! Honestly, it makes a huge difference at our house. Last night, I got isaac swaddled nice and tight. He slept, please don't hurt me, 15 hours. The night before though, I did a quick and dirty swaddling job and he woke up after just 4 hours.

[PamB]

Oh yes...swaddling helped us BIG TIME here at my house!!!

[Mama2ABCD]

your little one might also be teething. that's what i always figured my babies were doing about that time (my kids always started about 3 mos, and cut around 5 mos). but, reading the other pp's, they've given some great insight! i just rode it out, some nights were better than others. my littlest one is 7 mos and i seem to get a cycle or two of sleep in between his wakings. but, i don't really keep track...i gave that up with the first.

but, there is nothing wrong with your baby waking at night. it's very normal. and like a pp said, most babies whether breastfed or not wake at night. i do know when they get older they sleep better when they sleep next to you;)

they will sleep through the night, but it might take a few months or a few years...might not.

and from experience, nursing at night has been a great way for my nurslings to get through teething (from the 1st to the 2nd molars).

just trust your heart and your instincts. let them be your guide.

[Katybeth]

I feel your pain! My (almost) 4 month old nurses constantly at night. Last night he nursed 6 times between 10:30pm and 4:30pm...then I lost track.
I figure that he views me as his open all night buffet.
If you were sleeping next to a cheesburger...mmmm...you would want cheeseburger all night!
Unfortunately I am not one of those lucky Mama's who can just nurse in my sleep... i have to untangle & position these *ahem* assets of mine... it is hard for me to fall back asleep much before he is snarfling and rooting around again- arggh!
I love him so much & I am so tired!
I may try swaddling but I think that he just likes to snack & cuddle.
Good luck!

[Aliebama]

:rofl: a cheeseburger all night!!! WOW never looked at it that way we SOOOO spoil these babes..:muahaha:
Here I am with a fudge bar all night :thigh:

Oh and I'm with you I wake up everytime!!


I feel your pain! My (almost) 4 month old nurses constantly at night. Last night he nursed 6 times between 10:30pm and 4:30pm...then I lost track.
I figure that he views me as his open all night buffet.
If you were sleeping next to a cheesburger...mmmm...you would want cheeseburger all night!
Unfortunately I am not one of those lucky Mama's who can just nurse in my sleep... i have to untangle & position these *ahem* assets of mine... it is hard for me to fall back asleep much before he is snarfling and rooting around again- arggh!
I love him so much & I am so tired!
I may try swaddling but I think that he just likes to snack & cuddle.
Good luck!

[dakarimom5]

I have co-slept with all 5 of mine. My 4 boys still don't sleep through the night every night...okay my 15 yo does...except when he sleepwalks!! My 5mo DD sleeps through the night almost every night. Now why am I posting this info? Because I do NOT sleep through the night!! I have to get up at least once to make sure everyone is okay...especially Lili. Everyone makes a big deal about children sleeping through the night. What they don't mention is that because we have SIDS junk thrown at us all the time we are scared to death that are kids are dying not just sleeping. Okay, maybe its just me being a scaredy cat...

[Erika]

Hayes -- How is it bad that he slept 15 hours? :lol

[beauxsacs]

Hi,
I am agreeing with the previous posters, you are probably going through teething. Both of my dd's teethed early, and with my oldest it was really hard. I certainly understand the sleep deprivation thing, as I worked full time when mine were infants, well I was at work full time anyway, sometimes I wonder if I actually worked, or if I was more like some zombie from night of the living dead!
Please, please, please trust your instincts to meet your child's needs. I felt pushed to try the sleep training thing, and it was horrifying. I gave the book back to the co- worker that gave it to me and told her basically to stick it where the sun doesn't shine....
We started co- sleeping, and I would barely awake to nurse, and by nine months my oldest was sleeping through the night. They both weaned themselves around 13 months, and moved to their own beds over time.
Take care,
Robin

[MammaKelley]

Elizabeth Pantley's No-Cry Sleep Solution might give you some ideas but honestly with a baby that young, i would just relax and enjoy those night feedings and co-sleeping. It seems like forever but really, IT IS SUCH A SHORT TIME that you'll be going through this. Our little Frances co-slept for 9 months and didn't sleep through the night until we transitioned her to a crib at 9 months. Now she sleeps 12 hours straight...except we just put her in a big girl bed and found her asleep on the floor this morning! :) Anyway, I just wanted to encourage you to hang in there, ignore the baby wise stuff and put away the thought that your baby SHOULD be sleeping through the night or that you are doing something wrong if he or she is not. Our culture tries really hard to make parenting convenient but that's not always best for baby.

[boscopup]

Anytime you read ANY book (AP or not!), remember that there is no one method that works for every single child. Always keep that in mind.

As far as co-sleeping and children sleeping through the night... Most of the people I've known who co-slept did have children still waking to nurse well beyond a year and often beyond 2 years even. I think the issue there is that there's this all-night-dairy-bar right there, so they partake. ;) Do they *need* it? Probably not at 2 years. LOL. But as long as you're happy with the situation, there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with it. Babies who sleep in their own bed will often sleep through the night sooner, but not all. There are exceptions to every rule! I know of a formula fed baby that was waking up several times a night up until right around 2 years old, and he was not co-sleeping. All children are different in their sleep patterns.

My own children sleep in cribs (bassinet in my room the first few months, then crib in their own room once they're sleeping all night, since their rooms are upstairs and mine is downstairs). Both of my boys have slept 10-12 hours through the night starting at around 2.5 months (adjusted age in Joshua's case). Now Joshua slept so well for a couple months, then teething hit and he started waking twice a night again. I nursed him and he went back to sleep. It really wasn't a big deal. It was kind of hard on me at first because I was used to sleeping all night (unlike with a newborn where you've been waking up every 2 hours to pee during pregnancy anyway, so waking up every 2 hours to nurse is not much different). It lasted 2-3 months, and then he started sleeping all night again. Basically, once that first tooth popped through, he was fine.

Aaron sleeps through the night right now, but I'm expecting him to start waking again any time now, since he's 4 months old and teething has started. Although, he does know how to use his thumb, so he often self-soothes (he doesn't like to comfort nurse).

On the subject of nursing to sleep... I attempt to nurse to sleep and I don't think there's anything wrong with it! Joshua nursed to sleep for about a year, and then he started being awake when he was done nursing, so I had to teach him to put himself to sleep after I put him down. I did use some CIO, since the NCSS methods made him cry MORE. I think NCSS is a great book, but with MY child, if I went back in to comfort him or to pick him up, he would cry much worse than if I just left him to fall asleep. He would cry IN ARMS for hours, but if you put him down, he'd cry for about 5 minutes and fall asleep. Obviously, he just needed to fuss a bit in order to sleep, and some kids just need that. Aaron is actually somewhat similar - he likes to be put down and he tends to fuss to sleep even in arms (and he'll fuss less if you put him down and leave the room). So I let Aaron fuss a bit even at this age (prior to 6 months), but I read his cries to determine if they're the "I'm about to fall asleep" cries or the "I'm not ready to sleep yet - come get me!" cries. There is a difference. :) I do nurse Aaron before bed, but he doesn't always fall asleep while nursing, and if he does fall asleep, he often wakes up while burping (and I have to burp him or he'll wake up 5-10 minutes later in pain because he really needs to burp and/or spit-up... reflux baby). Aaron has let me put him down wide awake since he was wee little though. It's nothing I did... he just puts himself to sleep easily. No "training" necessary. Joshua needed help to do that... I called it "fuss it out", where I let him do some minor fussing at a very young age, but if he did an all-out cry, I picked him up and tried later (for nap times). That worked well for Joshua, and he still trusts me. ;)

Anyway, like others said, just follow your instincts and do what works for you, and don't think it's wrong that your baby still nurses during the night. That is very normal for this age, with them learning to roll and starting to teethe.

[momtotwogirls]

Both of mine slept at least 6 hours when wrapped tight, Sometimes they slept more than 12 hours and looked so peaceful that I was worried and stuck a mirror under their noses. Sleeping babes are the best!